California Department of Education
A sample algebra question from the California High School Exit Exam. Click to enlarge. Answer: A

The California High School Exit Exam would be suspended for several years and its role would be re-examined under a bill introduced last week by the chair of the Senate Education Committee.

Senate Bill 172 by Carol Liu, D-La Cañada-Flintridge, calls for suspending the test in the 2016-17, 2017-18 and 2018-19 school years and eliminating it as a graduation requirement during that time.

In the interim, the state Superintendent of Schools would be required to convene an advisory panel to study whether to continue the exit exam, and if not, what should replace it.

The exit exam “is no longer relevant,” Liu said, noting the state’s adoption of the Common Core State Standards in math and English.

“The test that has been administered doesn’t test the curriculum that’s being taught, so it’s just rather common sense that we should either fix the test or develop another instrument,” she said.

Since 2006, all California seniors have been required to pass the exit exam to qualify for a diploma. The two-part test was seen as a measure of whether students met basic proficiency standards in math and English.

The exit exam sets a “very low bar” for what students should be expected to know to succeed after high school graduation, said Kenneth Young, Riverside County superintendent of schools.

The bill comes as California education officials are discussing revising the so-called “accountability system” by which schools are evaluated. Schools are also transitioning to the Common Core standards, which include a battery of new standardized tests, called the Smarter Balanced Assessments.

Most aspects of the state’s standardized testing program were put on hold during the transition to the new assessments, but the exit exam remained in place as a graduation requirement. The exam is not aligned to the Common Core, but is built on the previous state standards. This year’s seniors are still required to pass the exam to graduate, in addition to completing other mandated coursework.

Liu’s bill does not discuss what might replace the exit exam. Those details would be left up to the advisory committee, which would include school administrators, teachers and parents, and testing experts, especially those with expertise in assessments for English learners and disabled students.

Carol Liu

Credit: Lillian Mongeau/EdSource Today

Carol Liu

In a January 2013 report, State Superintendent of Public Instruction Tom Torlakson recommended a number of alternatives to the exam. Those alternatives include using the results of the 11th grade Smarter Balanced Assessments; using results of other exams, such as the SAT, ACT or Advanced Placement tests, as a “proxy” for the exit exam; or using course completion in high school as a measure of proficiency.

Liu sponsored the bill after ongoing discussions with the California Department of Education, and she “continues to work closely with the department on this issue,” said Robert Oakes, Liu’s legislative director.

An independent evaluator that reviews the exit exam for the Department of Education said the test has been associated with positive outcomes. The evaluator, the Human Resources Research Organization, recommended continuing “with an exit exam of some sort.”

“Over fifteen years, we have seen (exit exam) test scores rise, overall and for demographic groups defined by race/ethnicity and economic status,” said the group’s 2014 evaluation report. “Graduation rates climbed, dropout rates declined, and successful participation in college entrance exams and Advanced Placement exams rose.”

Passage rates have risen steadily since the exam was introduced, from a 90.4 percent passage rate in 2006 to 95.5 percent in 2014. Students have numerous chances to pass the test, beginning in 10th grade.

Other research, however, has said that exit exams have had little value in improving student achievement, and in fact, had a negative impact on students who are academically at-risk, especially minority students.

The time has come to re-examine the test, said Kenneth Young, Riverside County Superintendent of Schools and co-chair of a state advisory committee that has been looking at ways to reform the accountability system that measures how well schools are serving students.

The exit exam sets a “very low bar” for what students should be expected to know to succeed after high school graduation, he said. The math section of the exam covers 6th- and 7th-grade material and Algebra I, while the English portion tests up to 10th grade material.

“I think what happens is students pass the exit exam and they think they can go out and find a decent job,” Young said. “They’re competing against people who have college degrees for those jobs you used to be able to get with a high school diploma.”

Further, any reform of the state accountability system could potentially render the exit exam unnecessary, Young said.

“The new accountability system may have expectations for students to meet in order to complete high school that would negate the need to have a separate way of measuring that,” he said.

“The bill has a lot of benefits to it,” Young said, “and I think this is an appropriate time to be looking at taking action like this.”

SHARE ARTICLE

Comments

Leave a Comment

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

Comments Policy

The goal of the comments section on EdSource is to facilitate thoughtful conversation about content published on our website. Click here for EdSource's Comments Policy.

  1. lorene allen 9 months ago9 months ago

    So when is California going to adopt the new score in the GED program?

  2. Jess 11 months ago11 months ago

    So what if you didnt met your requirements and didnt pass yhr English cahsee but willing to finish the requirements can u still get your diploma? Please advise

  3. Andre 12 months ago12 months ago

    Great idea

  4. tyrone 12 months ago12 months ago

    Great idea. .

  5. Nghi Tran 1 year ago1 year ago

    that’s good idea

  6. Fabian leal 1 year ago1 year ago

    If i am in class of 2014 can i get my diploma i only need the english portion its killing me it not that its hard i just get to stress out and frustrated and i think ot to much… i want to head to college but thats the only thing that is stopping me…..

  7. Jennifer 1 year ago1 year ago

    Hallelujah! My daughter dropped out of HS months before she was due to graduate 2014 because she could not pass the math portion of this exam! I am praising God for this suspension & my daughter will be obtaining HER H.S. DIPLOMA!

    Replies

    • Ryan Johnson 1 year ago1 year ago

      Good for you I’m happy for you and your daughter…. and ME! I’m a sophomore and I was stressed out about taking but now I don’t have to

  8. Tony 1 year ago1 year ago

    So did they pass this bill yet?

  9. Nicole 1 year ago1 year ago

    I graduated in 2013 i didnt receive a diploma because i didnt pass my math section on the exit exam, now that there is no cashee what happens with my diploma ? I called my high school asking for it, but they told me the state hasnt approved the years back only 2015 and up. I find this unfair, who do i speak too ? I met all my requirements but did not pass my math side of cashee

  10. Vanessa 1 year ago1 year ago

    What about for grads that finished in 2014? My understand is only students that finished in June 2015..

    Replies

  11. hugh thompson 1 year ago1 year ago

    My son has been fighting to pass the math portion of this test and he just missed it by 2 points this summer.This is very annoying and we would love for him to continue with his life but he stands stagnated by this test.what can he expect after this test is frozen for know?

  12. Amber 1 year ago1 year ago

    What about students who have graduated in the past years such as 2008-2009 but have not passed the English test do they get their high school diploma as week?

    Replies

    • Eva 11 months ago11 months ago

      Please somebody help me please I graduate in 2008 and got all requirements for high school and more then enough to credits… Will this bill apply to me? I wish somebody will help me.. I passed the English part but not math…. I went to sing in for school today n they told me to go back to my high school to ask cause I may be able to get diploma but I just want to make sure…

      • ariadna 6 months ago6 months ago

        I want to make sure too. Did you get any answers? I’m from 2008 too.

  13. Lexusdifiefi 1 year ago1 year ago

    SMH. Im a senior and I did not pass the CAHSEE yet. THIS NEEDS TO BE SUSPENDED NOW!!!!1 There is no point in it. We aren’t learning.

  14. Danny 1 year ago1 year ago

    If you are a student who didnt received a high school diploma in 2008, because of not passing the exit exam, would i be able receive one now that the law have past?. How can i receive my free diploma?

  15. gabriella espinoza 1 year ago1 year ago

    I was to suppose to graduate in 2011 but I didn’t because I didn’t pass the kc!!

  16. Rodolfo Trujillo 1 year ago1 year ago

    I supposed to graduate in 2006 and I was one of many students at the time that only needed to passed the Cahsee English and math but I was only able to passed the math part, and I didn't graduate do to it. A year later I was offered to retake the test and failed to passed, because it was little time that the school have gave us to study for the test in … Read More

    I supposed to graduate in 2006 and I was one of many students at the time that only needed to passed the Cahsee English and math but I was only able to passed the math part, and I didn’t graduate do to it. A year later I was offered to retake the test and failed to passed, because it was little time that the school have gave us to study for the test in 2007. After that, I’ve gave up on trying.

  17. rebecca 1 year ago1 year ago

    i’m a senior and i passed the California High School Exit Exam! I think student that passed it should not have another test in order to graduate!

  18. Michael Lynch 1 year ago1 year ago

    So what happens to the status of the diplomas dispersed over the next few years? What guarantee will employers have in regard to a minimum level of expected competence? Whether or not the current test is as rigorous as needed, is not the issue. The issue is that employers have a standard. Eliminating the standard leaves everyone suspicious and inferring the negative. We may as well place caution labels … Read More

    So what happens to the status of the diplomas dispersed over the next few years? What guarantee will employers have in regard to a minimum level of expected competence? Whether or not the current test is as rigorous as needed, is not the issue. The issue is that employers have a standard. Eliminating the standard leaves everyone suspicious and inferring the negative. We may as well place caution labels on the diplomas of the graduates of 2016, “WARNING! Proceed with extreme caution when considering this person for employment…. the state of California cannot confirm any level of competence in the fields of mathematical computation, reading comprehension or written composition.”

    Additionally, we have dismissed the accomplishment of hundreds of thousands of students who have placed their faith in the current system and have cleared the bar at its current level. We continue to pontificate about our intention to raise the standards and indeed we may well be raising them; however, we can raise the standards to the moon, but if we have no bar in place to measure whether or not or to what level said measures are being met, we are opening the floodgates of ignorance and chaos. Once open, there will be little chance of ever closing them again and no chance of retrieving the foolish who have been let loose to run ignorantly amok. Those poor fools who believe they have accomplished something tangible and marketable but who cannot read well enough nor perform simple mathematical computations well enough to be anything but a liability to their unsuspecting employers. When they cannot perform and are fired for their incompetence, they will be justified in feeling cheated by the very system that promised to educate and honestly evaluate their ability to perform minimum high school level academic functions.

    Those who sit as sinecures in Sacramento are clueless of the responsibility that we in the classroom dedicate our lives to see through. Our efforts are discounted and the taxpayer dollars we pour into the educational system are squandered needlessly. The textbook lobbyists celebrate… a rising Tsunami of ignorance and chaos races toward the state of California, the lobbyists will be waiting with their ‘lifesaving’ programs and we taxpayers will dig even deeper into our pockets to pay for the even less effective literacy programs undoubtedly being written as we muddle.

  19. aileen 1 year ago1 year ago

    So i was suppose to graduate in 2008 and never graduated but i had all my credits and pasted the English exit exam but never pasted the math test so unfortunately i didnt get my diploma i did go to a youth program after h.s and got a certificate of completion for having my credits but i cant do nothing with that since it does not have the sticker so now that iam trying to … Read More

    So i was suppose to graduate in 2008 and never graduated but i had all my credits and pasted the English exit exam but never pasted the math test so unfortunately i didnt get my diploma i did go to a youth program after h.s and got a certificate of completion for having my credits but i cant do nothing with that since it does not have the sticker so now that iam trying to get my h.s diploma i cant and i have called everywhere and they are all telling me i cant even take a course for just the math exit exam because it no longer exists at the moment so what do i do now?? Will i be able to get my diploma? How does it affect the ones that had all credits but never pasted the exit exam?

  20. Peter Ortega 1 year ago1 year ago

    Does this go for the class of 2015-2016

  21. Alex 1 year ago1 year ago

    Hi my name is Alex I got all my credits I pass all my classes with A and B and pass one part of the cahsse I walk in the graduation but yet didn’t got my diploma
    Cancel the cahsse
    And give those that have there credit there diploma

    Replies

    • Don 1 year ago1 year ago

      Alex, you are writing into an education blog suggesting that you should be able to get a diploma because you received either an A or B in all your classes. Yet you still don't know that sentences are capitalized and have periods at the end? I do feel somewhat conflicted over the idea that a student that failed the CAHSEE can't graduate even with a high grade point average, but your comment (and those … Read More

      Alex, you are writing into an education blog suggesting that you should be able to get a diploma because you received either an A or B in all your classes. Yet you still don’t know that sentences are capitalized and have periods at the end? I do feel somewhat conflicted over the idea that a student that failed the CAHSEE can’t graduate even with a high grade point average, but your comment (and those of some others) clarifies my concern. If it is possible to pass classes with flying colors and not understand even 1st and 2nd grade grammar than perhaps an exit exam is necessary. These are not issues that are particular to English.

      • Fred 1 year ago1 year ago

        Don, You should replace "that" with "who" so that you are grammatically correct. If we are going by when grammatical concepts are first introduced, pronoun antecedent agreement is also elementary. While I see your point regarding grammar, to call the post's mistakes "first grade" in nature is, in my opinion, degrading and inaccurate. Regards, Fred Read More

        Don,

        You should replace “that” with “who” so that you are grammatically correct. If we are going by when grammatical concepts are first introduced, pronoun antecedent agreement is also elementary. While I see your point regarding grammar, to call the post’s mistakes “first grade” in nature is, in my opinion, degrading and inaccurate.

        Regards,
        Fred

        • Don 1 year ago1 year ago

          Fred, yes, thank you. I should pay closer attention to my grammar, especially as a former teacher. I’m writing on the fly while doing several other things. As a result I often don’t take the time to do even a cursory edit. In this particular case I should have been more careful. Thanks again for pointing that out.

  22. Parent 1 year ago1 year ago

    I guess grades are not an indicator of being about to pass such a simple test as the CASHEE.
    Are there any consequences for teachers who give good grades or pass kids who don’t know the material?
    Perhaps these teachers should be prosecuted for fraud.

    Replies

    • sustu 1 year ago1 year ago

      Prosecute the TEACHERS for fraud? How about the administrators who quietly and pressure teachers to award credits to students who have not earned them?

      • sustu 1 year ago1 year ago

        In its quest to raise expectations for students by implementing Common Core standards and the Smarter Balance test, the state of California has actually lowered standards, for the time-being, by eliminating the need for students to pass ANY test to graduate. I understand we may have to wait three years before a new exit exam is designed—IF it is designed. The worst impact of this will be felt by poor and … Read More

        In its quest to raise expectations for students by implementing Common Core standards and the Smarter Balance test, the state of California has actually lowered standards, for the time-being, by eliminating the need for students to pass ANY test to graduate. I understand we may have to wait three years before a new exit exam is designed—IF it is designed. The worst impact of this will be felt by poor and struggling students. They will be happy at first, not to have to work so hard in order to graduate. Then when the harsh reality sets in about their lack of skills DESPITE having a high school diploma, I would expect them to become angry and embittered—as well they should.

        It was predictable that most students would not do well on the Smarter Balance test. That test was designed for students who have been taught Common Core standards since Kindergarten, and that situation applies to no student alive. Of course passing the Smarter Balance test should not be used as a requirement for graduation—certainly not at this point.
        But eliminating the California High School Exit Exam (CAHSEE) before having a similar requirement in place is a big mistake. I hope Governor Brown will not sign SB 172. True, the skills tested on the CAHSEE are not exactly the same skills we are emphasizing now. (The CAHSEE standards are lower overall.) But for most of the academic career of most current California high school students, these CAHSEE skills ARE the skills student have been working to attain, for the last nine years. These are the skills students have been told they HAD to have in order to graduate. And now, if the governor signs SB 172, we are going to tell them they needn’t have bothered? Now, for the next three years, we are going to have no objective criteria at all with which to gage whether students have learned basic skills?

        It may seem kind to such students to make it easier for them to graduate—they can finally have their diplomas! I predict graduation rates will go up, and drop-out rates will decline. That’s good, right? Education officials who are pressured about such statistics will take credit for improvement. But this celebration is short-sighted because course completion and passing grades do not always equal adequate learning. What it means to complete courses and obtain passing grades varies wildly from school to school—sometimes even from classroom to classroom.

        If SB 172 is signed, it won’t be long before employers learn that high school diplomas from certain schools in certain low socio-economic areas do not guarantee proficiency in basic skills. Soon, those students will be less likely to be hired, and more likely to be fired once employers realize how low their skills really are.

        If SB 172 is signed, the remediation of skills that should have been learned in high school, middle school, and even elementary school–will fall even more to community colleges than it already does. That is, IF the low-skilled high school graduates can see their way to obtaining more education. Would they even be eligible to attend adult school to remediate their skills, if they already have high school diplomas?

        To understand how low some high school students’ skills are, take a look at the comments from high school students Aileen, Alex, and Marisa Gomez. On the one hand, I commend them for their civic engagement, and for voicing their opinions. On the other hand, I want to help them learn how to express themselves much better before they are awarded diplomas.

        In the past, knowing they had to pass the CAHSEE helped motivate students to work harder to learn. Now, without the CAHSEE or some similar assessment of basic skills, struggling students may not get the help they need in high school because they will graduate regardless, as long as they complete their coursework. The hard-to-motivate students will sit back, doing as little as possible, and bet they will be handed a diploma anyway. And they probably will.

        The way to help poor and struggling students is not to lower standards. That approach is paternalistic and condescending, implying they are not capable of meeting high standards—and they ARE capable. Many of them have been facing additional challenges in their lives that most middle and upper-class people can’t even imagine. (In fact, many of them have developed resilience and life coping skills that many top Ivy League students lack.) The way to help poor and struggling students is to provide them with the extra help they need to learn the academic standards. (It would also help to provide them financial access to motivating extracurricular activities, like sports, cheerleading, music—all of which usually cost money they don’t have. But that’s a different issue.) If the CAHSEE is not reinstated, then please require SOME type of meaningful assessment of basic skills before awarding those high school diplomas. Graduation from a California public high school should mean a student has basic skills.

        P.S. I am a life-long Democrat, and a teacher at a school that serves students from a low socio-economic background.

        • Doug McRae 1 year ago1 year ago

          Sustu -- Very good statement of the policy rationale to continue a statewide minimum standard for a CA high school diploma. It is particularly disturbing that the CAHSEE HS grad requirement is being done away with via political skullduggery (cancelling the July test administration using administrative malfeasance, and Orwellian retroactive treatment for prior year graduating classes) rather than a legitimate legislative discussion of the pros and cons of continuing a statewide minimum standards for HS … Read More

          Sustu — Very good statement of the policy rationale to continue a statewide minimum standard for a CA high school diploma. It is particularly disturbing that the CAHSEE HS grad requirement is being done away with via political skullduggery (cancelling the July test administration using administrative malfeasance, and Orwellian retroactive treatment for prior year graduating classes) rather than a legitimate legislative discussion of the pros and cons of continuing a statewide minimum standards for HS graduation. I too am a lifelong Democrat, and SB 172 now on the Gov’s desk is an abuse of political power by folks now in charge of K-12 statewide assessment program issues in CA, apparently supported by the Gov himself.

  23. Joyce McKinney 1 year ago1 year ago

    Hello I’m 28 and have all of my credits and I walked across the stage and never received a completion of high school or diploma.I believe when I graduated I did not supposed to take the exit exam.. But now that it’s not available for years what do I do.

  24. Marisa gomez 1 year ago1 year ago

    Im stress over The Chasee i pass all My créditos i juss need to pass The chasee im gomina to Aldut school i have friends who pass all there clases but they Drop out be cause they need it to pass The Chase i think that was te of time please cancel The examen we need a break please maybe students finished Highschool moré than dropping school.

  25. Claudable Gomez 1 year ago1 year ago

    I agree. I graduated back in 2012 and yet I still need to pass the english part to have my high school diploma. I did all of my requirements and had a B average. I can’t enroll into community college because I need to have all of my requirementstuff done. I’m planning on finishing my high school diploma this year for sure. Need to find out on what to do.

    Replies

    • FloydThursby1941 1 year ago1 year ago

      You can get a GED and go to community college. If you can't pass the GED Pass you didn't work hard enough to be able to pass the Exit Exam and learn the material which most kids can pass Sophomore Year. How many Saturdays did you relax while others were studying? I find this story fishy, that you're diligent but a victim. I just don't buy it. Look at what … Read More

      You can get a GED and go to community college. If you can’t pass the GED Pass you didn’t work hard enough to be able to pass the Exit Exam and learn the material which most kids can pass Sophomore Year. How many Saturdays did you relax while others were studying? I find this story fishy, that you’re diligent but a victim. I just don’t buy it. Look at what you did at that point and can you honestly say you studied hard and did nothing wrong and now this is society’s fault?

      • Manuel 1 year ago1 year ago

        Have you no heart, Floyd? Have you no shame?

        Sheesh….

        • FloydThursby1941 1 year ago1 year ago

          I don't think society does anyone a favor passing them through high school with social promotion despite a lack of skills. Having a heart takes having the courage to ask people to be true to themselves and give their best effort. Are college athletes who make colleges millions playing sports yet read at an 8th grade level and never earn a professional salary receiving a favor? If kids go to college without … Read More

          I don’t think society does anyone a favor passing them through high school with social promotion despite a lack of skills. Having a heart takes having the courage to ask people to be true to themselves and give their best effort. Are college athletes who make colleges millions playing sports yet read at an 8th grade level and never earn a professional salary receiving a favor? If kids go to college without basic skills, will they earn what a college graduate should after graduating? If no one says it’s wrong to study few hours in high school, will they study 5 hours a week in college? Many do, and you still graduate maybe with a 3.00. But if you don’t have skills, you won’t do well in income and will have a huge debt. We need to be honest. I’m all for the government providing tutors, Sylvan, Kumon, firing bad teachers (I support Vergara), and spending more money. I’m all for equalizing schools and opportunity. However, you don’t benefit kids by giving a trophy just for participating. Life is competitive. You do kids no favor by telling them their effort is acceptable if it’s not, and it is misery to havea college debt and not be able to earn a college graduate’s income and carry college debt into your 60s and 70s. You don’t help people by lying to them.

  26. FrankOcampo 1 year ago1 year ago

    I don’t understand how people can not pass this test. I seen (IEP) special Ed students pass the exit exam…i believe it unfair for people who actually paid attention in class to prepare for the exit exam. I believe the theory of Einstein how he believe technology will bring less educated people to the world.

    Replies

    • Tyrenetta Gaither 1 year ago1 year ago

      It’s not the point of passing; the point is there should not be a test that will stop you to compete high school. Just because you feel that iep students pass does not help what others feel about this test. Not only that iep students don’t need to pass or be exempted any way.

      • rebecca 1 year ago1 year ago

        For your information IEP students DO NEED to pass the CAHSEE and if they can pass it others should too!

  27. Roberto 1 year ago1 year ago

    I was a student of class 2k15 and i had all credits to graduate and i pass my math CAHSEE but just because i didn’t pass my English CAHSEE version i didn’t got to walk on my Graduation.. It’s REALLY RIDICULOUS!!!!!

    Replies

    • FloydThursby1941 1 year ago1 year ago

      You did fail the test multiple times in which the vast majority of kids passed it. Most pass it Sophomore Year. People always leave that out. Why are people in this situation? My kids aren’t, they pass with flying colors Sophomore Year and made education a priority from a young age over TV, games, hanging out, and many other time wasters encouraged by many parents.Let’s keep it real here.

      • TheMorrigan 1 year ago1 year ago

        Just so you know, Floyd, most of the kids who do not pass the CASHEE after the second time around are all ELL or SPED students. In fact, the overwhelming majority are the EL's who are new to our country (in our country less than 4 years), the SPED who--for some unknown reason--did not get themselves exempted from the test, or the double labelled kids (ELL and SPED). In my local district, 100% of … Read More

        Just so you know, Floyd, most of the kids who do not pass the CASHEE after the second time around are all ELL or SPED students. In fact, the overwhelming majority are the EL’s who are new to our country (in our country less than 4 years), the SPED who–for some unknown reason–did not get themselves exempted from the test, or the double labelled kids (ELL and SPED). In my local district, 100% of all the students who did not pass it the second time around were ELL and/or SPED.

        While I am sure that some extremely lazy kid out there failed the test multiple times because of their parents and their work ethic, an overwhelming majority of kids who did not pass the CASHEE do NOT fit that category. For the majority of kids who actually have that problem, it has nothing to do with being lazy; it has nothing to do with TV or video games; it has nothing to do with “time wasters.”

        And it is fairly clear from Roberto’s sparse comment alone that there are some serious language issues there. This all means that you do not read critically. This means that you are deliberately or ignorantly insensitive. Because another poster has informed you of this fact before, I would just call you a moron.

        • FloydThursby1941 1 year ago1 year ago

          The Morrigan, you should have to learn English to be an American college graduate. The average kid in the state studies and reads under 6 hours and watches TV over 40. I don't think we should give kids degrees if they can't pass this test. College isn't for everyone, a third of Americans get a 4-year degree. You have to earn it. It's tougher if you choose to move to another … Read More

          The Morrigan, you should have to learn English to be an American college graduate. The average kid in the state studies and reads under 6 hours and watches TV over 40. I don’t think we should give kids degrees if they can’t pass this test. College isn’t for everyone, a third of Americans get a 4-year degree. You have to earn it. It’s tougher if you choose to move to another nation. You’re an immigrant without a diploma, but if you want to work hard and master English, you can be a high school graduate.

          Personally I think the exit exam should be harder than it is and your score should be part of your permanent record when you apply to jobs and we should have minimums for high paying government jobs such as police, fire, etc. High School and Middle School are times for self development. Our kids work half as hard as those in most of the rest of the first world.

          • TheMorrigan 1 year ago1 year ago

            Floyd said: "You should have to learn English to be an American college graduate." You've made an assumption. Does Roberto have to go to college? Can he not be happy and productive in some trade? Could he not join the armed forces and serve our country? Floyd said: "The average kid in the state studies and reads under 6 hours and watches TV over 40." People like Roberto are NOT the average student. They represent less … Read More

            Floyd said: “You should have to learn English to be an American college graduate.”

            You’ve made an assumption. Does Roberto have to go to college? Can he not be happy and productive in some trade? Could he not join the armed forces and serve our country?

            Floyd said: “The average kid in the state studies and reads under 6 hours and watches TV over 40.”

            People like Roberto are NOT the average student. They represent less than 5% of the graduating senior class in CA. The average lazy kid passes the CASHEE. The kids who do not pass the CASHEE by their senior year are NOT the average kid on any metric. Based on the data, they are probably SPED or EL or both. They are a very small percentage.

            Floyd said: “You’re an immigrant without a diploma, but if you want to work hard and master English, you can be a high school graduate.”

            Just like not all people are the same, not all immigrants are the same. For instance, it takes two to three years after an immigrant student has entered our system before they can be tested for special education. This means it takes some time before certain groups of students can receive adequate services. When you, Floyd, lump them all together, in your cookie-cutter fashion, it just highlights your blind prejudice and your demonstrative ignorance of situation.

            I do not care to get into arguments for whether the CASHEE is too easy or too hard or dumb or whatever. But I do care about all kids and I do think we should have avenues for sustainable and productive lives for all of them–even the 5%.

            I have included a link to the 2013 data so that you can educate yourself: http://www.cde.ca.gov/nr/ne/yr13/yr13rel78atta.asp

  28. Veronica 1 year ago1 year ago

    I honestly think that this high school exit exam . For students should not be a requirement. we want our future students after high school to have a successful life on what they want to study for. For example I graduated in 2014 & I got all my high school credits pulse I was ahead of my credits, I also join sports through my years in school , was also in a club … Read More

    I honestly think that this high school exit exam . For students should not be a requirement. we want our future students after high school to have a successful life on what they want to study for. For example I graduated in 2014 & I got all my high school credits pulse I was ahead of my credits, I also join sports through my years in school , was also in a club called engineering club . & I think after me taking this test made me feel like I can’t do nothing in life because of this . I did not pass this test at all . honestly this is not fair for me because I work so hard in high school I wanted to become something as in being a nurse & having a good future. Because I know when I take classes for nursing I know I will be dedicated to this career. So pleases hear me out . We deserve to have a good future or. I know I do because I’m struggling in life..

    Replies

    • Don 1 year ago1 year ago

      It's heartbreaking to hear from young adults who have passed their classes but failed the exam and didn't get a diploma, especially when others in similar circumstances did. Obviously, many of you did not grow up speaking English and may have trouble on an English test. This is too high of a stake. Let me say this to you: Don't let this get you down. You keep your head up high and you … Read More

      It’s heartbreaking to hear from young adults who have passed their classes but failed the exam and didn’t get a diploma, especially when others in similar circumstances did. Obviously, many of you did not grow up speaking English and may have trouble on an English test. This is too high of a stake.

      Let me say this to you: Don’t let this get you down. You keep your head up high and you can move on and do what you want in life. In the big picture, it is a minor setback. Cliche as it sounds, it can make you stronger – to persevere. That’s the key. Just keep plugging along.

  29. Fanx 1 year ago1 year ago

    I believe that the High School Exit Exam should be banned, it is not fair for those who has work hard, focus and are actually doing good in school. Not of a matter of broken English or not understanding math. There are many people who have broken English but then write very well in literature and there are the people who tries their best to learn math, yet, is eligible to count (everyday useful) money. … Read More

    I believe that the High School Exit Exam should be banned, it is not fair for those who has work hard, focus and are actually doing good in school. Not of a matter of broken English or not understanding math. There are many people who have broken English but then write very well in literature and there are the people who tries their best to learn math, yet, is eligible to count (everyday useful) money. The High School Exam is a stress and depression to many high school students who are trying their best to do good and are doing good in school.

  30. Carolina Rodriguez 1 year ago1 year ago

    Please let me know as soon as you could find out if this will be revelant and confirmed. I will be having all my credits completed in a year from now. Also, for how long will it be suspended?

  31. crystal Murcio 1 year ago1 year ago

    I would still like to know if I can get my high school diploma

  32. Dana 1 year ago1 year ago

    They should take this test off we don’t use it for are work and future to do better and to move on students go to school and do there work to get there credits and there high school diploma not like this with a test it needs to be removed .

  33. marie 1 year ago1 year ago

    I Was A IEP Student I've Been Done Since 2007 Finish At The Adult School Can't Pass This Test At All I Didn't Get Offer A Waiver Now I'm Older There Saying It To Late Cause My Age Thats Bullshit The District Destroys Record After So Many Years They Should Keep Important Files We Work Hard Enough To Get Off Or Credits To Be At School Everyday Get Our Homework Done You Guys Just Put … Read More

    I Was A IEP Student I’ve Been Done Since 2007 Finish At The Adult School Can’t Pass This Test At All I Didn’t Get Offer A Waiver Now I’m Older There Saying It To Late Cause My Age Thats Bullshit The District Destroys Record After So Many Years They Should Keep Important Files We Work Hard Enough To Get Off Or Credits To Be At School Everyday Get Our Homework Done You Guys Just Put More Pressure On Us With This Test!!!!

  34. Theresa 1 year ago1 year ago

    Yes this should stop I think it's ridiculous I have receive all my credit and even extra credit for the school in 2007 and because of the Cashee I can't get my diploma I try and try and even went to adult school and still nowhere. I tried getting G.E.D I have to pay everytime I retake it and also pay the first fee as well. It's hard with this economy with no jobs … Read More

    Yes this should stop I think it’s ridiculous I have receive all my credit and even extra credit for the school in 2007 and because of the Cashee I can’t get my diploma I try and try and even went to adult school and still nowhere. I tried getting G.E.D I have to pay everytime I retake it and also pay the first fee as well. It’s hard with this economy with no jobs especially when a good paying jobs wants a diploma. I got the skill, experience, over credit and I deserve my diploma. Those who should receive a diploma should be those who drop out young or don’t even try.

  35. crystal Murcio 1 year ago1 year ago

    I am wondering I was supposed to graduate 2013 I’ve been going to Adult school but was told that the Cahsee is no longer required so what am I suppose to do to be able to get my diploma now I have token collage courses but can’t go any further till I get my diploma please get back to me would really like to know what I can do.

    Replies

    • Shelley 1 year ago1 year ago

      You do not have to have a diploma to go to college. You will need to take all the required courses in community college so you can transfer to a university after your have satisfied the minimum requirements to enter a university.

      • crystal Murcio 1 year ago1 year ago

        I would still like to know if I can get my high school diploma

  36. Susan 1 year ago1 year ago

    Great news! Passing the CAHSEE will not apply to 2016 HS graduates because the test is not being given this year. This break will also apply to anyone who finished their course work, but did not pass the CAHSEE for the two previous years. This is because they will not have to the test to keep taking. (they have been allowed to take the test 3 times for 2 years after completing all the HS … Read More

    Great news!
    Passing the CAHSEE will not apply to 2016 HS graduates because the test is not being given this year. This break will also apply to anyone who finished their course work, but did not pass the CAHSEE for the two previous years. This is because they will not have to the test to keep taking. (they have been allowed to take the test 3 times for 2 years after completing all the HS course work.)
    Do not ever bring back this or another test that penalizes students who complete all their course work, but cannot receive a state endorsed diploma in CA because they did not pass one or both CAHSEE tests!

  37. lucy 1 year ago1 year ago

    I would like to know what happens to the seniors of 2015 that didn’t pass. They were suppose to be given an opportunity to retake and now what??

  38. angelica 1 year ago1 year ago

    I've been out of school since 2010 I took the exit exam 3 times I am unable to.pass the math part and I passed the English I've been continuing going to Adult School for some time now and I was told that the test is now cancelled how long do I have to wait for an answer because all I need is my math I have everything else done credits and all I'm good to … Read More

    I’ve been out of school since 2010 I took the exit exam 3 times I am unable to.pass the math part and I passed the English I’ve been continuing going to Adult School for some time now and I was told that the test is now cancelled how long do I have to wait for an answer because all I need is my math I have everything else done credits and all I’m good to go I’m just supposed to be waiting on this one math exam and then I’m ready to start the rest of my life I’ve done some college courses already but I’m unable to continue my education in college without a highschool diploma so this kind of losing me stuck in the road and stuck in the part of my life right now I’m very confused I was hoping you would get more information on this and what’s going to happen if you could please email me back I really need some answers

    Replies

    • Danielle 1 year ago1 year ago

      I’m curious to know if you’ve received a response on your post about the math section we are pretty much in the same boat that’s all I need in order to receive my diploma.

  39. Rueben r Johnson 1 year ago1 year ago

    This couldn’t have happen at a better time i recently took the exit exam and i failed the math by 10points it took me 20 years to get here if it wasnt for my wife pushing me to get it done , im awaiting. To start the surgical Technicians program in November.

  40. Mayra 1 year ago1 year ago

    Hopefully they'll cancel the cahsee. Not enough graduates because students can't pass it, including myself. I suppose to graduate in 2010, I done all my credits and all my hours. I just can't pass my English cahsee but I passed my math. I took classes to Learn more and how to pass the cahsee but I just can't do. Not everyone has the same skills. It's to much pressure. Soo please take off the cahsee … Read More

    Hopefully they’ll cancel the cahsee. Not enough graduates because students can’t pass it, including myself. I suppose to graduate in 2010, I done all my credits and all my hours. I just can’t pass my English cahsee but I passed my math. I took classes to Learn more and how to pass the cahsee but I just can’t do. Not everyone has the same skills. It’s to much pressure. Soo please take off the cahsee so I can get my diploma!!!

  41. Susan 1 year ago1 year ago

    It is not fair that Special Education students receive waivers to pass the CHSEE. These students can not pass the exam and often could not pass a 6th grade test. It was my belief if a student could not pass they would obtain a certificate of completion not a high school diploma. For 20 years I have seen passing grades in Algebra A and B when the student was performing addition … Read More

    It is not fair that Special Education students receive waivers to pass the CHSEE. These students can not pass the exam and often could not pass a 6th grade test. It was my belief if a student could not pass they would obtain a certificate of completion not a high school diploma. For 20 years I have seen passing grades in Algebra A and B when the student was performing addition and subtraction in reality. This sickens me.

  42. Anyssa Santos 1 year ago1 year ago

    I was suppose to Graduate class of 2014. I’ve passed my English CAHSEE the first time . I’ve got all of my high school credits plus my community hours that are required to graduate. Unfortunately i didn’t graduate do to me not passing the high school exit exam math part. Here i am 2 years later still not graduated. I hope this passes because math is a very difficult subject for me.

  43. abigail 1 year ago1 year ago

    The California high school exit exam should be cancelled. there is no point and no reason for taking a test that determines wether or not you will get your diploma. What should matter is if you pass all of your classes and get all of your credits. I am 18 and have been repeatedly studding, taking classes, and retaking the CAHSEE since I was a sophomore and have been missing it by only 1 point. … Read More

    The California high school exit exam should be cancelled. there is no point and no reason for taking a test that determines wether or not you will get your diploma. What should matter is if you pass all of your classes and get all of your credits. I am 18 and have been repeatedly studding, taking classes, and retaking the CAHSEE since I was a sophomore and have been missing it by only 1 point. And earned all of my 230 credits I was supposed to. But I did not get to graduate in my class of 2015 due to the CAHSEE. This test only causes students to stress out over something that doesn’t help with our future. if students try hard enough, get good grades, and stay in school, but do not pass the test then they are not rewarded with the only thing they stay in school for..their diploma. Everyone is different when it comes to learning and some people fail at tests and still get good grades but know the material, they just can’t take tests because it makes them nervous. I myself have that problem when it comes to learning and I am hoping that they get rid of this use less test so that students like me can graduate because not everyone can take a test, but everyone should get their diploma if they do their work and are dedicated and show up to school everyday. I’m hoping that they can give everyone and me a chance in 2016 at getting our diploma based on if we get all our recommend credits.

    Replies

    • Seth 1 year ago1 year ago

      This new common core and the smarter balance crap is stupid. It's not helping at all I'm a senior now and haven't been able to pass because of this it didn't make sense at all they give us tests that we did not learn at all from this then the cahsee had math that we never learned this is in fair please ale of this stupid test and let us students earn it in the … Read More

      This new common core and the smarter balance crap is stupid. It’s not helping at all I’m a senior now and haven’t been able to pass because of this it didn’t make sense at all they give us tests that we did not learn at all from this then the cahsee had math that we never learned this is in fair please ale of this stupid test and let us students earn it in the class room by getting all of our credits in class. The teachers don’t even care and army liking this either.

  44. stacia 1 year ago1 year ago

    How would I get my diploma since the law pass

  45. Susan Deane 1 year ago1 year ago

    This test was a farce in the beginning. When Special Educational students can receive a waiver and obtain a diploma and not pass the test makes the test an invalid tool. It was originally designed that if a student could not pass they would obtain a certificate of completion. I know of many students in Orange County who cannot multiply or divide nor can they conjugate a complete sentence but have a high school diploma.

  46. tc 2 years ago2 years ago

    The entire education system is broken. When I was in high school in 80s, I could not afford college, my grades were average, learning was difficult in a traditional role. I am a visual learner, there were no alternatives for me as far education. Military was a last resport. Now I am almost 50 going to junior college, I'm being forced to take a bunch of classes that I will never use, nor did I need … Read More

    The entire education system is broken. When I was in high school in 80s, I could not afford college, my grades were average, learning was difficult in a traditional role. I am a visual learner, there were no alternatives for me as far education.
    Military was a last resport.

    Now I am almost 50 going to junior college, I’m being forced to take a bunch of classes that I will never use, nor did I need the past 30 years.

    The only reason, I am told to take all these math courses and English courses, history of this, appreciation of that…as the money adds up, a jr college councelor tells me, if you want that piece of paper, then you have to take the courses.

    Regardless of the courses being taken, your getting a piece of paper that doesn’t relate to what you want to do in life, Jr college is set up to collect money from people.

    Unless math or English is part of your work in the future, why are we being forced to take 4-5 of the same courses.

    Being interested in photography, I’ve had a photography business for 10 yrs, but to get a full time job. As a photog, you need a degree, I can’t transfer to a college that offers photography here where live, so I have to get a degree in some other subject.
    And hope I can find a job probably not paying g more that $40k a yr. At almost 50 yrs old,

    But if I wanna do all this at almost 50 I have to jump through all these hoops, just to get a piece of paper that makes me look qualified.

    Crazy.

  47. ME 2 years ago2 years ago

    Unfortunately, this bill does nothing to address "Adult Students" who more than likely have not taken Smarter Balanced Assessments. In Adult Education, students can finish up their credits at any time, which means that there may be people that met all of their credit requirements 5 years ago, take a break, then come back to take their CAHSEE, only to find out that it's no longer available. What will happen to these adults … Read More

    Unfortunately, this bill does nothing to address “Adult Students” who more than likely have not taken Smarter Balanced Assessments. In Adult Education, students can finish up their credits at any time, which means that there may be people that met all of their credit requirements 5 years ago, take a break, then come back to take their CAHSEE, only to find out that it’s no longer available. What will happen to these adults students? Do you go back in time for all of these students and automatically grant them a diploma?

  48. Jasmine 2 years ago2 years ago

    This test and many other test that children are forced to take should be eliminated. What people fell to realize is that everyone is not the same and every child learns differently so who are we to say that because someone does not pass a test is not as smart as someone whos passed. We have been facing systematic oppression for many years and this system is tearing our children and communities apart. This … Read More

    This test and many other test that children are forced to take should be eliminated. What people fell to realize is that everyone is not the same and every child learns differently so who are we to say that because someone does not pass a test is not as smart as someone whos passed. We have been facing systematic oppression for many years and this system is tearing our children and communities apart. This education system is psychologically, emotionally, and mentally tearing these children self-esteem up by this structure way of learning. What’s being taught in elementary does not meet the criteria of middle school, middle school doesn’t meet the criteria of high school, and high school doesn’t meet the criteria of college It’s a cycle that’s repeating itself, and each level of educational institution these children go to they are being taught something different. So how can a test define ones destiny. If that’s the case…

    Every teacher and person working in any district and thats affiliated with the school system should be tested as well. Let’s be fair people.

    I am friends with someone who did not pass the exit exam and held a 3.8 grade point average throughout high school and college, and to this day she doubts herself because of that test and not being able to receive a diploma. She is a published writer and very intelligent but is still suffering. It’s wrong and not fair.

    If you want to keep testing our children with these foolish test than change the way they’re learning in the classrooms. Change the system completely teach these children openly be welling to learn from them as well as you’re teaching them.
    These test are just ridiculous and a persons level of knowledge should be based on a test. Let’s be honest these tests are to see how good the schools are doing, and the funding they will receive not for the best interest of our children, but to keep our society disconnected from one another. It’s sad and it’s time to end this.

  49. Hui Zeng 2 years ago2 years ago

    SB172 is so stupid bill. Students don’t need to study because they can get diploma without any tests. How can they be found that they learn something from school?

  50. Asheley 2 years ago2 years ago

    I’m 26 I’m going to be going to school in the Fall Semester do I have to take the retake the Exit Exams I missed by a couple.

  51. Mary Dunn 2 years ago2 years ago

    I fully support suspending the exit exam! It is a complete waste of time, resources and money. It does not assess the skill set graduating high school seniors need to succeed in college level math or English. I teach high school students on a college campus and the exit exam has no relevance to skills needed to succeed even at the community college level. Suspend it and replace it with the … Read More

    I fully support suspending the exit exam! It is a complete waste of time, resources and money. It does not assess the skill set graduating high school seniors need to succeed in college level math or English. I teach high school students on a college campus and the exit exam has no relevance to skills needed to succeed even at the community college level. Suspend it and replace it with the Smarter Balance. This would allow struggling students more time to focus on college readiness skills as measured by the Common Core Standards and Smarter Balance. So much money would be saved!

  52. Carol Naranjo 2 years ago2 years ago

    Get rid of this exam, students should be able to get their diploma’s based on their work done in the classroom.

    Replies

    • FloydThursby1941 2 years ago2 years ago

      No way, we had that before and kids were graduating high school functionally illiterate, in some cases literally illiterate. Social Promotion is tempting but wrong. It's better to tell a kid at 6, 8, 9, look kid, if you eep going at this level, you're only going to be able to work minimum wage jobs if that and you will likely get frustrated, turn to crime, go to prison or end up homeless. … Read More

      No way, we had that before and kids were graduating high school functionally illiterate, in some cases literally illiterate. Social Promotion is tempting but wrong. It’s better to tell a kid at 6, 8, 9, look kid, if you eep going at this level, you’re only going to be able to work minimum wage jobs if that and you will likely get frustrated, turn to crime, go to prison or end up homeless. If you graduate from high school functionally illiterate you Parents need to know so they can work with their kids and turn off the TV, kids need to know so they can get tutoring, etc. If we are graduating kids who don’t have the knowledge they should after so many thousands of hours under the care of the school system, we want to know the truth and fix it, not softly lie to each other to feel good. Getting rid of the exit exam is a lot like fake orgasms, it’s letting mostly males feel good about something they don’t deserve to feel good about and hurting everyone else.

  53. Gary Ravani 2 years ago2 years ago

    Doug: As Tom Torlakson noted: other than the CAHSEE "using course completion in high school as a measure of proficiency." This was the "standard" for many years. And, yes, there was some "inconsistency" based on specific districts requirements. And this hurt whom and how? And I'm not talking about hysterical op/eds put out by the business community or the odd university person here and there. This has been going on since before the turn of the last … Read More

    Doug:

    As Tom Torlakson noted: other than the CAHSEE “using course completion in high school as a measure of proficiency.” This was the “standard” for many years. And, yes, there was some “inconsistency” based on specific districts requirements. And this hurt whom and how?

    And I’m not talking about hysterical op/eds put out by the business community or the odd university person here and there. This has been going on since before the turn of the last century. Then there is the fact that, contrary to Tom’s other suggestions about “proxies,” teachers’ grades and students’ class standing have been much better predictors of college success than either the SAT or the ACT. The empirical evidence is pretty transparent on that.

    There was hue and cry about students not being prepared for college before exit exams and now, after a decade or so of the exams, the hue and cry is, if anything, even greater. So another “harm” to the system created by the exams is that it creates one more diversion of the public’s attention from the facts: 1) many kids have always taken some “remedial classes;” and 2) because of lack of funding most post secondary in CA from community colleges, to CSU, to UC are turning away qualified students or otherwise devising mechanisms to cut down on the costs of the systems (and, thereby, reduce access contrary to the Master Plan).

    Inconsistencies can also be looked at as good old American individualism and creativity. Again, there is no indication that the imposition of yet one more test, HS exit exams, has done anyone any good, and considerable evidence that it has done harm.

    The main argument for them seems to be a deep seated appreciation for tests per se. Tests have their appropriate uses, but the fixation on over-testing for a decade and a half has constituted a failed reform effort.

    Replies

    • Doug McRae 2 years ago2 years ago

      Gary — This is one where you and I have to respectfully disagree. My view is that a well designed efficient [see my reply to Don below for discussion how to make CAHSEE more efficient] high school exit testing program does far more good than harm. The primary good is to set a consistent statewide minimal academic achievement standard for HS diploma’s in CA, a worthwhile objective or goal.

      • Gary Ravani 2 years ago2 years ago

        Doug: As I said, tests have a place. Something like a NAEP-style matrix test that absolutely minimizes time used for test prep and the testing itself and that provides for a system check would be useful The tests, unlike the current NAEP, ought to be aligned with what is being taught. (A system much like that used in Finland, which seems to serve them quite well.) Also removing any "high-stakes" aspects that drive gaming the test, teaching … Read More

        Doug:

        As I said, tests have a place. Something like a NAEP-style matrix test that absolutely minimizes time used for test prep and the testing itself and that provides for a system check would be useful The tests, unlike the current NAEP, ought to be aligned with what is being taught. (A system much like that used in Finland, which seems to serve them quite well.)

        Also removing any “high-stakes” aspects that drive gaming the test, teaching to the test (unless it is a very, very, good test), that distort and demean the curriculum, or are otherwise restrictive of teachers being able to deploy their own creativity in the classroom, is a necessity.

        Currently, in this test abusive system, with pacing guides and highly scripted curriculums instructional life is being sucked out of the classroom. Teacher are forced to engage in best practice in spite of the system, not because they are supported by it. I am not saying that test makers have created the system, it’s just that politicians and those with agendas hostile to the interests of children have used the tests to create an abusive situation.

        I know the implementation of CCSS is supposed to remedy some of those issues of over-regulation of the classroom. I also know that many districts have asked the state to provide them with pacing guides for CCSS that illustrates management in many places just doesn’t get it.

        The creation of tests that can do that is something I leave to experts like yourself, but ultimately they must be critiqued by classroom practitioners. I know your position is that the accountability aspects should come first, but mine is that the classroom impacts, positive or negative, come first.

  54. Doug McRae 2 years ago2 years ago

    No doubt it is time to consider replacing CAHSEE . . . . . However, to say the current CAHSEE does not measure the minimum skills needed for a HS diploma in California, even with the change to Common Core standards, is just not accurate (I'm agreeing with Navigio on this). There are no essential differences between CA's 1997 standards and the new Common Core standards in terms of minimum skills needed for a HS … Read More

    No doubt it is time to consider replacing CAHSEE . . . . .

    However, to say the current CAHSEE does not measure the minimum skills needed for a HS diploma in California, even with the change to Common Core standards, is just not accurate (I’m agreeing with Navigio on this). There are no essential differences between CA’s 1997 standards and the new Common Core standards in terms of minimum skills needed for a HS diploma. We need a new CAHSEE not because it is deficient in measuring minimum skills needed for a HS diploma, but rather because it is terribly inefficient and not at all coordinated with other mandated HS tests.

    To suspend CAHSEE before a replacement program is installed is NOT good large scale assessment planning. Good large scale assessment planning would call for identification of a new replacement test and more importantly coordination with new mandated tests (i.e., SBAC HS tests) to avoid over testing, and equivalency studies to allow for continuity from the old program to the new program, before the old program is declared kaput and the new program is declared installed.

    Now, while the above sequence is standard good educational measurement practice, the politics of large scale K-12 assessments many times suggest an alternate way to proceed. For those against large scale high stakes tests, many times a direct path to elimination of a testing program cannot muster the required support, so a strategy to “suspend” the program is used to weaken its viability while simultaneously discussions take place to determine a replacement program. The result is a several year hiatus in any program at all, and as a practical result no way to protect continuity from the old program to any new program, and hence a weakening of support to reinstate any program at all. It appears this may be the underlying dynamic for SB 172, especially for folks opposed to individual student high stakes tests such as a HS graduation test. Via the timing of the suspension, SB 172 would almost certainly disrupt any opportunity to generate continuity from old program to new program, and as a result eliminate any potential for addressing this needed property for any CAHSEE replacement.

    Replies

    • Don 2 years ago2 years ago

      "I’m agreeing with Navigio on this). There are no essential differences between CA’s 1997 standards and the new Common Core standards in terms of minimum skills needed for a HS diploma." Correct me if I'm wrong, testing people, but why then can't SB be used with a separate cut score or at proficiency level to replace CAHSEE, even if SB is more designed to access college preparedness in high school? Differences in courses, instruction, student preparedness, etc. … Read More

      “I’m agreeing with Navigio on this). There are no essential differences between CA’s 1997 standards and the new Common Core standards in terms of minimum skills needed for a HS diploma.”

      Correct me if I’m wrong, testing people, but why then can’t SB be used with a separate cut score or at proficiency level to replace CAHSEE, even if SB is more designed to access college preparedness in high school?

      Differences in courses, instruction, student preparedness, etc. will always be present whether with one test or another.Look at the differences in implementation of CC at present.

      • Doug McRae 2 years ago2 years ago

        You are not wrong, Don. SB high school tests can and should be used as a partial solution for the burden of a full every kid or census HS grad test, likely using a separate cut score lower than a SB proficiency level as the minimum skills level needed for a HS diploma in CA. This concept was part of legislation authored by Jack Scott in 2008 to make CA's statewide tests for the … Read More

        You are not wrong, Don. SB high school tests can and should be used as a partial solution for the burden of a full every kid or census HS grad test, likely using a separate cut score lower than a SB proficiency level as the minimum skills level needed for a HS diploma in CA. This concept was part of legislation authored by Jack Scott in 2008 to make CA’s statewide tests for the HS grades more coordinated, but unfortunately his bill was vetoed by Gov Arhnold who said the bill covered things the SBE could do without orders from the legislature, which was true, but then the SBE, SSPI, and CDE never changed the CAHSEE program to coordinate it with the then existing STAR program to generate a more efficient statewide testing program at the HS level. The concept even has a name: it is using the other statewide tests (now Smarter Balanced) to “pre-qualify” kids for the CAHSEE high school graduation requirement, thus reducing the overall CAHSEE testing burden by a factor of 3 or 4 times.

  55. Gary Ravani 2 years ago2 years ago

    The National Research Council looked at the national impact of HS exit exams and found them to have had a negative impact. They have "encouraged" dropping out, and along with the rest of the testing jihad, done nothing whatsoever to increase real learning. Then there was the Stanford study that found pretty much the same thing but specifically about CA and the negative impacts here. The CAHSEE particularly targeted Hispanic females and increased their dropout … Read More

    The National Research Council looked at the national impact of HS exit exams and found them to have had a negative impact. They have “encouraged” dropping out, and along with the rest of the testing jihad, done nothing whatsoever to increase real learning.

    Then there was the Stanford study that found pretty much the same thing but specifically about CA and the negative impacts here. The CAHSEE particularly targeted Hispanic females and increased their dropout rates.

    Other than that, they have been just great.

    Replies

    • Gary Ravani 2 years ago2 years ago

      Doug: No offense intended here, but your main argument seems to be the continuity of the CaHSEE program needs to be maintained in order to maintain the continuity of the program. Hard to argue with that "logic." On the other hand, it does not address the arguments presented by the NRC and the Stanford study that asset exit exams have done little to improve learning and have added hurdles to disadvantage students, particularly (in the Stanford study) Hispanic … Read More

      Doug:

      No offense intended here, but your main argument seems to be the continuity of the CaHSEE program needs to be maintained in order to maintain the continuity of the program.

      Hard to argue with that “logic.”

      On the other hand, it does not address the arguments presented by the NRC and the Stanford study that asset exit exams have done little to improve learning and have added hurdles to disadvantage students, particularly (in the Stanford study) Hispanic females.

      States and districts set graduation requirements, teachers teach classes where students accrue (or not) credits toward graduation based on the grades they receive, and then students graduate (or not). The whole HSEE concept seems like an unneeded appendage to this process that actually inhibits chances for student success. The opposing view seems to be that test scores have transcendent and abstract beauty because, after all, they are expressed in numbers. An interesting but highly subjective view.

      • navigio 2 years ago2 years ago

        One might counter that CAHSEE was not intended to help students.

        • Gary Ravani 2 years ago2 years ago

          And one might be correct and so the evidence suggests. In that case, let us dump it.

      • Doug McRae 2 years ago2 years ago

        No, Gary, my main argument is that if you want a quality minimum skills statewide standard for HS graduation in CA, you need to have a good support structure including continuity when you change the measurement device. [Not that you cannot raise or lower the standard if needed, but rather that you do that with sound knowledge of what you are doing.] The NRC and Stanford studies provide some data and opinion on the wisdom of … Read More

        No, Gary, my main argument is that if you want a quality minimum skills statewide standard for HS graduation in CA, you need to have a good support structure including continuity when you change the measurement device. [Not that you cannot raise or lower the standard if needed, but rather that you do that with sound knowledge of what you are doing.]

        The NRC and Stanford studies provide some data and opinion on the wisdom of HS graduation tests, but those studies are countered by data and opinion from other studies such as the HumRRO material quoted in the post.

        Re teacher input for graduation decisions, that clearly is needed and should be the major part of local graduation standards. But the argument for a statewide minimum graduation standard such as the CAHSEE program is the result of the reality that local graduation standards have varied widely from school to school and district to district in the past. Test scores can and do provide a consistent minimum standard statewide — test scores really don’t have transcendent or abstract beauty for most folks [junkies like me aren’t “most folks” (grin)], but they do have the virtue of consistency across schools and districts to establish a statewide minimum standard.

  56. FloydThursby1941 2 years ago2 years ago

    This is ridiculous. This test is so easy, designed to measure basic math and reading comprehension and grammar. It is the same content anyone should know. Passing it is easy. They watered down this test so much based on media complaints some people would fail that it lost it's original purpose. They should report the actual score on these tests. If 70 is passing, they should require 80 or 85 for many … Read More

    This is ridiculous. This test is so easy, designed to measure basic math and reading comprehension and grammar. It is the same content anyone should know. Passing it is easy.

    They watered down this test so much based on media complaints some people would fail that it lost it’s original purpose. They should report the actual score on these tests. If 70 is passing, they should require 80 or 85 for many jobs like police officer, fire, desirable government jobs.

    All we heard was how unfair it was that some people didn’t speak English or were disabled and would fail. That’s the point! Before the exit exam, people were graduating high school functionally illiterate, getting socially promoted. To be a high school graduate you should have to have basic math and reading and writing skills and knowledge about geography, science, government, history, etc. You should be able to speak a foreign language at a minimal level.

    This should be tested. If people goof off through high school and don’t learn anything, they shouldn’t be able to say they are a high school graduate. A diploma should mean something.

    So many oppose testing and want social promotion under the guise of being liberal knowing these people will feel good and say they are middle class but barely make minimum wage and serve the rich, barely scraping by. If we want a middle class society like the 1950s we need the exit exam to enforce a minimal level of effort, but some kids will rebel. We need to have the stick as well as the carrot. For a few years some kids have to fail. We can only have everyone pass if everyone works hard in school and studies and turns off the TV.

    Otherwise the test is meaningless.

    These are the facts and they are undisputed.

  57. navigio 2 years ago2 years ago

    The test may no longer be necessary, but transitioning to common core is not the reason. It is estimated that there is 80% overlap of old CA standards with common core, and implementation will likely make that even higher. With a pass rate over 95%, it doesnt seem like there should be any fear of a 'mismatch' with the standards. Its also dismaying to hear a superintendent say that this test is part of what … Read More

    The test may no longer be necessary, but transitioning to common core is not the reason. It is estimated that there is 80% overlap of old CA standards with common core, and implementation will likely make that even higher. With a pass rate over 95%, it doesnt seem like there should be any fear of a ‘mismatch’ with the standards.
    Its also dismaying to hear a superintendent say that this test is part of what he considers an accountability system that measures schools.